Ying Miao 苗颖

 

 

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                        访谈

             Interview          

Michelle Proksell:  When and how did you first hear about the Internet in China?

Ying Miao 苗颖: My parents bought me a computer when I was in middle school, which I think was the norm for many people from my generation. This was one of the big things to buy after microwaves and air conditioning units for Chinese families in Shanghai. I had a computer, but no Internet access until high school.  At that time, the Internet was very expensive. I only used the computer to play games, like Tomb Raider. I don't remember exactly how I heard about the Internet, but it gradually became a popular topic at school, and the Internet represented 'cool'. 

MP: What did you think the Internet was or what it could be for people in the future when you first heard about it?  

YM: I thought it was powerful, something new and I was very curious about what it could be. It was mysterious; something that I didn't know exactly what it did, but it seemed very interesting. I knew it wasn't a microwave, but a method that would change the way we would do things.  

MP:  How did you first access the Internet and what were you most interested in finding on online at that time?

YM: I figured out how to get online behind my parent's backs. We had dial-up Internet access at that time and there were news websites and the idea of 'links' would link one news topic to something else and it was infinite. That was my first impression of accessing information differently. The most popular thing Chinese people were using on the Internet was OICQ, aka Chinese ICQ, which later became QQ.  Chatting with a stranger was not so overwhelming for me, but the fact that I could just leave the conversation at anytime was the other thing besides links that blew my mind. I could experience a type of surreal reality where it was so virtually real. But soon, I was pulled back to the real world after my mom received a 500 RMB ($80 USD) phone bill, which was a lot of money for a Chinese family 15 years ago-- It was around half the price of a microwave. 

MP:  How exactly did microwaves change the average Chinese household?  

YM:  Start with a heavy ceramic-type cereal bowl and a dinner plate. Put your rice in the bottom of the bowl, and the rest of your food on top. If your rice is all clumped together in one mass, you'll probably want to use a fork to gently break it into small pieces before putting the rest of the food on top. Once all the food is in the bowl, put the dinner plate upside-down on top of the bowl. Press the plate into the bowl and turn the whole thing over so the bowl is resting on the plate. Microwave on high for 1:30-2:30, depending on how much food you have. Let sit for several minutes to let cool down and to let the steam heat and rehydrate the rice. Pry the bowl up with your fork and set aside.

MP:  What did your early art endeavors first include (pre-internet art)?  And, when and how did the Internet first become a part of your art practice?

YM:  I did what every art student had to do in China to get into a good art school---Russian realism and a lot of realism drawing and painting. Then my art got real enough to get into one of the best art schools in china, and I chose not to paint anymore. I did videos and was very interested in computer programming at the time. In 2007, I read an article on Boing Boing about how there was censorship in China and no one would have the time to figure out the whole list because no one would have that much time. I decided to check the whole dictionary word by word to see the list, and that was the first time the Internet had been involved in my work.

MP: How long did it take you to look up the whole list of censored words?  And did you find you had to backtrack often since words were also being added to the list frequently?

YM: Three months. No I didn’t backtrack, the "list" is changing all the time and impossible to get it "right". I had a program to run the words, but it still took 8 hours to get the results as a list. The list itself is a mystery, and using three months to look up the censored words is absurd.  What was most interesting to me was how it pushed my limit to become a kind of machine by doing that for three months, 10 hours a day. 

MP: Do you remember the shift from the pre-GFW Internet age to the present GFW Chinese Internet now?  How did this censorship effect or influence your interaction on the Internet most?

YM: I do remember when Google, YouTube and Twitter were available in China, but that was not pre-GFW either. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen pre-GFW Chinese Internet. The GFW has been evolving since 1997 when Wire magazine first named it the Great Firewall. Before, when a word was censored on Google they would block your IP address for 20 mins at first, then later on they would just show you a statement of why there were some results not shown instead of blocking your service entirely.

MP:  What was your feeling about the GFW years ago?  Was it something you felt deeply restricted by or something that you had just grown up with - and you didn't really realize what you were not gaining access to?

YM: Although there were ways to access the Web outside of the GFW, I still felt restricted.  Even nowadays, people will always choose the easy way by finding substitutes to not deal with even trying to get outside of it, but that's not their fault.  The next generation will properly not even know there is a Google out there if they don’t try to get outside of the GFW.

MP:  When you first encountered the Web outside the GFW, did it change the way you viewed the Internet up to that point?  Did it influence your perspective of the limitations of the GFW?

YM:  It wasn't mind blowing because I was using TOR all along before I went abroad, but it is still quite impressive because it's faster and has no boundaries, almost like walking on marshmallows or something. It also makes a huge difference for interacting with people around the world.

MP: Do you find it offensive to hear the Chinese Internet being called a term like, "Chinternet"?  What was your first reaction hearing this word?

YM: No, I haven't heard it before, but I don't think it's offensive at all. I don't think words like Chinglish are insulting either. It's a phenomena that's real enough to come up with a name for. I think it's an interesting topic.

MP: When you first hear 网友 wǎngyǒu nowadays, what does it make you think of? 

YM: Depends on the context. It could remind you of free speech, laid-back attitude, or irresponsibility.

MP:  Why exactly does 网友 wǎngyǒu also make you think of irresponsibility?

YM: Because my first impression of the word is booty call.

MP:  In the early days of 网友 wǎngyǒu’s, what did these online friendships really mean to your generation?  Who was your first long term online friend 网友?  Did you eventually ever meet in person?

YM: It really means booty call to my generation. What is interesting is that those booty calls later became serious relationships and I have a couple of friends who met online and now are happily married.  I think this is a common way for people to find love in my generation. I have some long term online friends in Second Life who are builders but we have never met in real life. 

MP: Does the Chinese Web aesthetic influence your own personal aesthetic? 

YM: Totally, the way that the Chinese Internet is so low-tech and kitchy are very touching to me.

MP: Why did you choose to come back to China to produce art?

YM: It's hard to find another place that is so raw but also so limited.

MP:  Since Internet Art doesn't have a deeper place quite yet in the history of Chinese contemporary art, do you think there is a potential for younger more experimental artists to eventually consider using the Chinternet as a place for art production?

YM: I think it needs to be developed more in China. Things that are contemporary in the West will be copied in China at a later time, so I think there is a bright future for Chinese Internet art. Not to say that the internet in China is almost simultaneously involved with the rest of the world's, but the beauty is in it's limitation and also the great potential of the next generation of artists who grew up with the Internet and Angry Birds.  

MP:  Are there universities or programs within Mainland China that are introducing this medium to their students?  Do you know of any other artists based in Mainland China who are also exploring the Chinternet and applying it to their art practice?

YM: I think my college (China Academy of Art) now has programs that are open to Internet Art. I heard there are also Hong Kong artists who are doing this kind of work, which would be very interesting to see more of.  I also think Mainland China based foreign artists, Thea Baumann and Kim Laughton are doing a great job.

MP: How important are "objects" and Art Institutions to Chinese artists today?  

YM: Very important. 

MP:  How does the "object" now play a part in your own art practice, compared to your early years before working with the Web?

YM: I am not against objects. I think that in a way it's nice to link back to the physical world. The problem is that it has to be a new object.

MP:  What constitutes a "new object" in your opinion?

YM:  A new form of expression, new physical materiel, like fabric, nails, cell phone cases, etc.

MP:  Would you consider yourself one of the pioneers of Internet Art in China?  What significance does that make in the ways you approach producing and sharing your work in China and abroad?

YM: I do consider myself a pioneer of Internet Art in China. I have been educated in both China and the US, which conflicts with finding my own voice. It also offers different perspectives on my responsibility to explore the Internet as a medium here.

MP:  When you’re surfing the web, do you surf most often with or without your VPN on?

YM: I use a VPN all the time unless I want to watch American TV shows for free.

 

*This interview was conducted via email between Sept and Oct 2014.

Chinese translations by Ophelia S. Chan

媚潇:你是怎么样和在什么时候在中国听说有互联网的?

苗颖:  我上初中的时候我的父母给我买了一台电脑,在我这一代来说估计是很普遍的事。在微波炉和空调之后,电脑就是上海的中国家庭买得比较多的科技产品。当时我有一台电脑,但是一直到高中才有互联网接入,而且当时互联网接入非常贵。当时我只用我的电脑打游戏,比如《古墓丽影》。我记不清是怎样听说有互联网的,但是它慢慢成为了学校里的一个热门话题,互联网亦就这样代表了“酷”。

媚潇:你刚听说有互联网的时候你认为它是什么,你觉得它会为人的将来带来什么?

苗颖: 我觉得它很强大、很新鲜,而且我也很好奇它会是什么。它很神秘,因为我不清楚它到底是干嘛的,但我知道它不是微波炉,而是一种能够改变我们做事方式的媒介。

媚潇:当初你是怎样连接上网的,当时你最希望在网上找到什么?

苗颖: 我背着父母找到连接上网的方法。我们当时用拨号连线,有新闻网站和能从一个话题连到另一个话题的“链接”,一个有无限可能性的概念。那是我用不同方式去访问信息的第一印象。OICQ是当时中国人在网上用得最多的程序,也就是中国的ICQ,往后变成了QQ。与陌生人聊天倒没有令我觉得兴奋,而是我能随时离开这些对话,关掉窗口这些人就消失了。我能体验到一种不真实的真实。但是很快我就被拉回真实世界里,因为我妈妈收到了五百人民币的电话费单,而对十五年前的中国家庭来说是很大的一笔费用——几乎是半台微波炉的价格。

媚潇:微波炉到底怎样改变了一般的中国家庭呢?

苗颖: 用很沉的陶瓷类碗和盘子。将你的白米饭放在碗里再将其余的食物放在上面。如果你的米饭粘成一大块也许你会用叉子戳成小块再将其余的食物放在上面。所有食物都在饭碗里的话,再把盘子放在饭碗上,然后把碗反过来压在盘子上。取决于你有多少饭菜,在微波炉里高频烹调一分半至两分半。让它冷却一些,让蒸气使米饭复水。用叉子撬开饭碗待用。

媚潇:你最初的艺术创作(前网络艺术)包含了什么元素?互联网在什么时候及如何开始介入你的艺术实践?

苗颖: 我做的跟其他需要考进好的艺术学院的学生一样——做了很多苏派写实主义绘画练习。写实到进了国内其中最好的艺术学院之一,我就决定不再绘画了。我开始制作录像,而且对计算机编程很感兴趣。2007年我在BoingBoing上读了一篇关于中国审查制度的文章,它提到根本没有人会有足够的时间去搜索整个被审查的列表。那时我就决定在字典里一个一个字的查,这是第一次互联网被纳入我的工作中。

媚潇:你花了多长时间去找这些被审查的字眼?由于新的字会经常被加入这个列表,你是否需要经常重新查看?

苗颖: 三个月。不,我没有再重新查了,这个“列表”经常被更新,根本不可能做得“对”。我有个搜查这些字的软件,但是需要八个小时去完成搜索。这个列表本身就是一个谜,花三个月去搜这些不良字眼更是荒唐。我觉得最有意思的莫过于这个过程如何将我推到了一个极限,成为了连续三个月每天工作十个小时的一个机器。

媚潇:你记得从GFW(防火长城)前的互联网时代到现今GFW中国互联网的转变么?这个审查制度如何影响或改变了你在互联网的互动?

苗颖: 我记得在国内还能浏览谷歌、YouTube和Twitter的日子,但是那也并不是前GFW时代。其实我觉得我并没有经历过前GFW时代的中国互联网。中国互联网自从1997年被Wire杂志命名为The Great Firewall开始就一直在进化。在那之前,如果在谷歌上有个被审查的字,他们首先会屏蔽你的IP地址二十分钟,后来就会有一个解释为什么会看不见部分的搜索结果的声明,而不会直接把你的服务完全屏蔽。

媚潇:当时你对GFW有什么想法?你有觉得它明显的局限性么,还是它只是你在成长过程中需要妥协的一部分——而你根本没有发现你具体被局限的程度?

苗颖: 虽然当时在GFW外有很多其他连接互联网的方式,我还是感觉到局限性的。因为人总是喜欢容易的东西。要改变一代人是很容易的。

媚潇:你第一次接触到GFW外的互联网的时候,它有改变当时你对互联网的想法么?它有否影响到你对GFW的局限性的看法?

苗颖:  其实也没有令我太兴奋的,因为在我出国之前我都一直在用TOR,但是它的速度和无限性确实是挺让人惊叹的,有点像在棉花糖上走路。其次它令与世界各地的人交流变得容易得多。

媚潇:中国互联网被外国称为“Chinternet”你觉得被冒犯了么?你对这个词最初的反应是什么?

苗颖:  我没听说过这个词,但是我也没有觉得被冒犯了。就像“chinglish”这种词我也不觉得有侮辱性。它只是一个足够有趣的现象,我觉得还蛮有意思的。

媚潇:你现在听到“网友”这个词有什么想法?

苗颖:  视乎上下文是什么吧。它可以令你想到言论自由、轻松的态度或无责任感。

媚潇:具体是什么让你想到了无责任感?

苗颖:  因为我对这个词的第一反应是约炮。

媚潇:在早期的网友时代里,这些网上的友谊对你这一代来说到底有什么意义?谁是你第一个长期的网友?你们最后有在现实生活中见过面么?

苗颖: 在我这一代真的是约炮的意思。有意思的是这些关系很多时候会进化成情侣关系,我有两个朋友,他们是在网上认识的,而现在还结婚了。我觉得这是我这一代寻找爱情的一种方式。我在《Second Life》里有过一些长期的网友,他们是装修工人,但是我们从来没有见过面。

媚潇:中国互联网的美学对你自己的美学有影响么?

苗颖 :  当然,低科技感和媚俗对我有很大的感触。

媚潇:为什么你会选择回国实践艺术?

苗颖 : 很难找到别的地方会这么原始,同时也有这么大的局限性。

媚潇:网络艺术在现时的中国当代艺术历史中还是一个未成熟的领域,你觉得新一代的实验艺术家会否考虑用中国互联网作为他们实践艺术的平台?

苗颖: 我觉得它需要在国内更成熟一些。我觉得中国的网络艺术在未来的发展还是挺明朗的。不是说中国的互联网几乎与全球的互联网同时进行,而是它的优点在于它的局限性,而下一代的艺术家也因为在有《愤怒的小鸟》的互联网时代中长大而具有很大的潜力。

媚潇:在中国大陆有介绍这种媒介的大学或课程么?你认识其他也在探索中国互联网而将它介入到自己艺术实践里的中国艺术家么?

苗颖: 我的母校(中国美术学院)现在好像有些课程也会包容网络艺术的实践。我听说也有一些香港艺术家在做这种创作,我自己也想多看到。也有外国的网络艺术家正在中国大陆实践,Thea Baumann 和 Kim Laughton就做得很好。

媚潇:现时来说“实体”和艺术机构对中国艺术家有多重要?

苗颖 :  非常重要吧。

媚潇: “实体”现在比你运用网络之前的艺术实践里扮演的角色有何区别 ?

苗颖 :  我并不反对“实体”。我觉得,在某一方面其实能够与物质世界有关联也是好事。问题在于它必须是一个新的物体。

媚潇 :你觉得什么是“新物体”?

苗颖 :  一种新的表现方式、新的物质,比如布料、指甲、手提电话等。

媚潇:你觉得你是中国网络艺术的先锋么?这对你在国内及国外创作和呈现作品有什么影响?

苗颖 :  我觉得我是中国网络艺术的先锋。我在中国和美国接受过教育,这与我寻找自己的声音有些矛盾。另外它也令我更多方面地考虑到在我运用互联网的时候的相关责任。

媚潇 :你用互联网的时候,更多用还是不用你的VPN?

苗颖 : 我长期开着VPN,除非我想免费看美国的电视节目

 

译本 /陈秀炜